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Paul P 12/4/02 9:48 p.m.
I can't find the post that talked about columns so here is my experiance
with Azek.
Pros:
1. Cuts and routes better than any product I have ever used. Absolutly perfect.
2. The glue seems to hold REALLY well after only 10 minutes. So you only
need a few pins to hold it till it is set.
3. It sheds water and ice like you would expect plastic to.
4. Takes nails well enough, brads seam to work better than Finish nails.
5. Nice smooth finish, flexible but strong.
Cons:
1. The dust seems to take a charge so it adheres itself to all things metal,
it can be blown off but be prepared to blow off every corner and cranny.
2. The smell of the PVC glue makes me glad I am not a plumber.
3. Takes longer to work with than a wood product due to glue/primer, precautions
to avoid dumping cans of glue, lots of "charges" dust around.
4. Cost was $150 for a 4x10 sheet.
I will use it again but will add 20 -30% increase in labor till I get used
to the stuff. I will try to work outside with it because of the fumes from
the glue.
Re: Azek
Kirk Grodske 12/5/02 12:32 p.m.
Please remember to buy and use a GOOD respirator. That stuff is not good
for your lungs or sinuses and once you get a good one you might wear it
more often for dust and that can only be a good thing.
Kirk
Re: Azek
Mark White 12/5/02 6:12 p.m.
Oops..
Paul, I was wondering how the job went, sounds like well enough. The real
test now is in how the stuff holds paint, which I can tell you is incredible.
It makes it worth the trouble and cost.
As for the glue, you should try Gorilla brand PVC cement, which is water
based, no odor and no primer required (this is NOT Gorilla glue as in polyurethane
glue.) It works almost as well and no respirator required.
One other note, we've just switched over to yet another PVC product called
Koma. Still use Azek for routed stuff, but the Koma surface is as close
to wood as it gets and the skin is hard to dent with a hammer. You may want
to check around and get a chunk to play with.
Re: Azek
Gary Katz 12/9/02 10:11 p.m.
Paul,
Good information. Thanks,
Gary
Re: Azek
Rick 12/10/02 4:41 p.m.
I have been speaking with the rep who suggests using there glue.It is water
based and it gives you more working time.He also said that there are uv
inhibitors in it and regular pvc cement can yellow over time.He also said
the product does not need primer coat.Be careful some paint manfactures
do not warrent there product unless you use there primer.Sherwin Williams
makes a product called Duration that does not require you to use a primer.A
possible selling point'
Re: Azek
James Eggert 12/22/02 9:44 p.m.
We have recently been using more Azek trim boards.
At what point do you glue up the joints versus just nailing, especially
when casing exterior windows?
Jim
Re: Azek
Dick Seibert 12/22/02 10:01 p.m.
Jim:
I have been using Windsor One for exterior trim boards, and am quite happy
with it. I have bought other brands of Radiata Pine that I am not happy
with. What advantages does Azek have over Windsor One?
Re: Azek
Rick 12/23/02 9:24 p.m.
Jim,
I have just started fooling with the product so I do not have too much field
experience with it.I did just make a azek exterior column so I will give
you some feedback on that experience.I machined some 2"band casing
and some 7"crown on my Williams and Hussey molding machine.Quality
is fair there are some voids in the product.Once you take off the factory
coating a much more duller surface is exposed.My concern would be that it
would pick up dirt and discouler over time.I glued all miter joints.The
glue does not seem to adher to the factory surface.The manfacturer tells
you that you do not need a primer.I tried just a finish coat and adhesion
is poor I would not recomend it.You must use a bonding agent before the
final coat.Hope this helps
Re: Azek
James Eggert 12/29/02 10:45 a.m.
Dick
We are attempting to use Azek as prefinished trim boards as it is sometimes
advertised. I have used Windsor One before and have no complaints so far;
however I wonder how long before it also telegraphs joints under the finish
as FJ cedar and FJ pine does? If installed properly the Azek may not need
to be field painted, but if the finish nails are installed haphazardly we'll
probably have to paint it anyway. The Azek is also available in 20' lengths
which may avoid scarf joints...
Rick
Interesting paint problem. You are having exactly the opposite of what everyone
else has said about paint. Is there a possibility it was left too long before
painting so the surface was dirty? I hope you can add more info to this.
Jim
Re: Azek
Rick 12/29/02 4:09 p.m.
Jim,
I picked up the azek at the dealer myself and saw that it was covered in
storage so I do not think that dirt was the culprit.You can paint right
over the product with no noticeable problems.However if you take your fingernail
and just lightly scrape over the painted surface the paint will almost peel
off.Scares me.That is why I would not paint the product without first using
a bonding agent.Give it a try and let me know what you think
Re: Azek
Mark White 12/29/02 5:16 p.m.
No need to use a bonding agent before painting! We had exatly the same experience
as Rick. I thought we were in big trouble, but called the rep and his explanation
was that due to the fact that this is solid PVC and not wood then the paint
solvent (in this case water) doers not get absorbed into the material but
must leave through the paint film. It takes up to 10 days to cure properly!
Scared the &#!t out of us at first, but when it finally did cure we
couldn't get it off with a chisel.
One other thing, in our shop we say painting is 9/10ths prep and 1/10th
putting it on. You should diligently clean the Azek prior to painting with
a detergent and a sponge (I've never trusted pressure washing) to remove
all dirt and fingermarks. A light scuff with a scotchbrite pad doesn't hurt
either.
As for voids, we have never found one yet. And as for the internal texture,
this is an issue and if it counts then you need to spend time with some
sandpaper to smooth it out. The stuff is not magic but it sure won't rot.
Mark
Re: Azek
Bill P 12/29/02 8:39 p.m.
Mark,
What adhesive do you like for Azek?
Bill
Re: Azek
Rick 12/30/02 5:34 p.m.
Mark,
What type of paint are you using?I have been using Sherwin Williams Duration.They
say you do not have to prime.Problem was poor adhesion.That is why they
recommended bonding agent.Will the paint manfacture you are using warrent
the paint with no primer?Sounds like different paints react differently
to the product.
Re: Azek
Mark White 12/31/02 2:09 p.m.
Bill-
I use Gorilla brand, water soluble PVC cement. Works OK, not as well as
plumbers cement with primer but alot nicer to work with and acceptable adhesion.
Rick-
It's my understanding that most any water based paint will work well. I'm
a believer in primer no matter what. never tried Duration but have heard
good things. Generally we use Benjamin Moore products with good results,
but we always use a primer. When in doubt we try a sample and let it cure
for 10 days before testing it out.
Have included a link to Azek's site regarding proper installation and finishing.
Most manufacturers WILL NOT stake themselves to a strict finishing regime
because if the paint fails they want you to chase the paint manufacturer!
Mark
http://www.azek.com/install.asp
Re: Azek
Dick Seibert 1/10/03 1:50 a.m.
So what's the verdict? I am thinking about trying it.
Azek
Paul P 12/4/02 9:48 p.m.
I can't find the post that talked about columns so here is my experiance
with Azek.
Pros:
1. Cuts and routes better than any product I have ever used. Absolutly perfect.
2. The glue seems to hold REALLY well after only 10 minutes. So you only
need a few pins to hold it till it is set.
3. It sheds water and ice like you would expect plastic to.
4. Takes nails well enough, brads seam to work better than Finish nails.
5. Nice smooth finish, flexible but strong.
Cons:
1. The dust seems to take a charge so it adheres itself to all things metal,
it can be blown off but be prepared to blow off every corner and cranny.
2. The smell of the PVC glue makes me glad I am not a plumber.
3. Takes longer to work with than a wood product due to glue/primer, precautions
to avoid dumping cans of glue, lots of "charges" dust around.
4. Cost was $150 for a 4x10 sheet.
I will use it again but will add 20 -30% increase in labor till I get used
to the stuff. I will try to work outside with it because of the fumes from
the glue.
Re: Azek
Kirk Grodske 12/5/02 12:32 p.m.
Please remember to buy and use a GOOD respirator. That stuff is not good
for your lungs or sinuses and once you get a good one you might wear it
more often for dust and that can only be a good thing.
Kirk
Re: Azek *NM*
Mark White 12/5/02 6:04 p.m.
Re: Azek
Mark White 12/5/02 6:12 p.m.
Oops..
Paul, I was wondering how the job went, sounds like well enough. The real
test now is in how the stuff holds paint, which I can tell you is incredible.
It makes it worth the trouble and cost.
As for the glue, you should try Gorilla brand PVC cement, which is water
based, no odor and no primer required (this is NOT Gorilla glue as in polyurethane
glue.) It works almost as well and no respirator required.
One other note, we've just switched over to yet another PVC product called
Koma. Still use Azek for routed stuff, but the Koma surface is as close
to wood as it gets and the skin is hard to dent with a hammer. You may want
to check around and get a chunk to play with.
Re: Azek
Gary Katz 12/9/02 10:11 p.m.
Paul,
Good information. Thanks,
Gary
Re: Azek
Rick 12/10/02 4:41 p.m.
I have been speaking with the rep who suggests using there glue.It is water
based and it gives you more working time.He also said that there are uv
inhibitors in it and regular pvc cement can yellow over time.He also said
the product does not need primer coat.Be careful some paint manfactures
do not warrent there product unless you use there primer.Sherwin Williams
makes a product called Duration that does not require you to use a primer.A
possible selling point'
Re: Azek
James Eggert 12/22/02 9:44 p.m.
We have recently been using more Azek trim boards.
At what point do you glue up the joints versus just nailing, especially
when casing exterior windows?
Jim
Re: Azek
Dick Seibert 12/22/02 10:01 p.m.
Jim:
I have been using Windsor One for exterior trim boards, and am quite happy
with it. I have bought other brands of Radiata Pine that I am not happy
with. What advantages does Azek have over Windsor One?
Re: Azek
Rick 12/23/02 9:24 p.m.
Jim,
I have just started fooling with the product so I do not have too much field
experience with it.I did just make a azek exterior column so I will give
you some feedback on that experience.I machined some 2"band casing
and some 7"crown on my Williams and Hussey molding machine.Quality
is fair there are some voids in the product.Once you take off the factory
coating a much more duller surface is exposed.My concern would be that it
would pick up dirt and discouler over time.I glued all miter joints.The
glue does not seem to adher to the factory surface.The manfacturer tells
you that you do not need a primer.I tried just a finish coat and adhesion
is poor I would not recomend it.You must use a bonding agent before the
final coat.Hope this helps
Re: Azek
James Eggert 12/29/02 10:45 a.m.
Dick
We are attempting to use Azek as prefinished trim boards as it is sometimes
advertised. I have used Windsor One before and have no complaints so far;
however I wonder how long before it also telegraphs joints under the finish
as FJ cedar and FJ pine does? If installed properly the Azek may not need
to be field painted, but if the finish nails are installed haphazardly we'll
probably have to paint it anyway. The Azek is also available in 20' lengths
which may avoid scarf joints...
Rick
Interesting paint problem. You are having exactly the opposite of what everyone
else has said about paint. Is there a possibility it was left too long before
painting so the surface was dirty? I hope you can add more info to this.
Jim
Re: Azek
Rick 12/29/02 4:09 p.m.
Jim,
I picked up the azek at the dealer myself and saw that it was covered in
storage so I do not think that dirt was the culprit.You can paint right
over the product with no noticeable problems.However if you take your fingernail
and just lightly scrape over the painted surface the paint will almost peel
off.Scares me.That is why I would not paint the product without first using
a bonding agent.Give it a try and let me know what you think
Re: Azek
Mark White 12/29/02 5:16 p.m.
No need to use a bonding agent before painting! We had exatly the same experience
as Rick. I thought we were in big trouble, but called the rep and his explanation
was that due to the fact that this is solid PVC and not wood then the paint
solvent (in this case water) doers not get absorbed into the material but
must leave through the paint film. It takes up to 10 days to cure properly!
Scared the &#!t out of us at first, but when it finally did cure we
couldn't get it off with a chisel.
One other thing, in our shop we say painting is 9/10ths prep and 1/10th
putting it on. You should diligently clean the Azek prior to painting with
a detergent and a sponge (I've never trusted pressure washing) to remove
all dirt and fingermarks. A light scuff with a scotchbrite pad doesn't hurt
either.
As for voids, we have never found one yet. And as for the internal texture,
this is an issue and if it counts then you need to spend time with some
sandpaper to smooth it out. The stuff is not magic but it sure won't rot.
Mark
Re: Azek
Bill P 12/29/02 8:39 p.m.
Mark,
What adhesive do you like for Azek?
Bill
Re: Azek
Rick 12/30/02 5:34 p.m.
Mark,
What type of paint are you using?I have been using Sherwin Williams Duration.They
say you do not have to prime.Problem was poor adhesion.That is why they
recommended bonding agent.Will the paint manfacture you are using warrent
the paint with no primer?Sounds like different paints react differently
to the product.
Re: Azek
Mark White 12/31/02 2:09 p.m.
Bill-
I use Gorilla brand, water soluble PVC cement. Works OK, not as well as
plumbers cement with primer but alot nicer to work with and acceptable adhesion.
Rick-
It's my understanding that most any water based paint will work well. I'm
a believer in primer no matter what. never tried Duration but have heard
good things. Generally we use Benjamin Moore products with good results,
but we always use a primer. When in doubt we try a sample and let it cure
for 10 days before testing it out.
Have included a link to Azek's site regarding proper installation and finishing.
Most manufacturers WILL NOT stake themselves to a strict finishing regime
because if the paint fails they want you to chase the paint manufacturer!
Mark
http://www.azek.com/install.asp
Re: Azek
Dick Seibert 1/10/03 1:50 a.m.
So what's the verdict? I am thinking about trying it. |
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